God is not the Creator, claims academic

It's just a woman. What does she know. [/sarcasm]

The theistic Satanists believe that Lucifer was the original creator god that was usurped by Yahweh because he wasn't brutal enough.

Wow, that article is really interesting. It's good to see a close examination of religious text instead of generations of misunderstood/misrepresented writings.

And I wish I caught that History Channel/ NG special Nsane was referring to re: Lilith. I can look it up, I know. I really enjoy having a fresh look at those old texts, and examining the reasons why their meanings have been twisted for so many years.

ravengrim wrote:

Quite a sharp turn form the usual Judeo Chrisitan vision of the beginning of the world.

Not really.

There are a few things that have to be looked in detail.

ravengrim wrote:

She said she eventually concluded the Hebrew verb "bara", which is used in the first sentence of the book of Genesis, does not mean "to create" but to "spatially separate".

The first sentence should now read "in the beginning God separated the Heaven and the Earth"

This says that he did create it because when something of such complexity is separated something new is created. the water and land were one thing much like they are now under the water but when they are separated that creates two separate things, dry land and a void where there was ocean. Basicly a new creation.

Now, heres the big one. back in the days of "the court" there were two types of english, there was the english the rich spoke and the english that the poor spoke. This is only relevent because when these texts were translated it was done in court (rich) english and in this version of english the "heavens" is not a magical place where no one can see. In all actuallity the old fashioned cartoons where they show the dead on clouds is more correct because "heaven" is the sky. The moon and sun and stars and the clouds are all in the heavens because you look up to see it so then thats where the richeous would go and in deed where God and all the "heavenly angels" lived...

So, to take the original meaning of the court translated english on "heaven" and this lady's theory on seperation then "God" separated the earth from the sky but that brings an interesting problem. How do you separate something like the earth from something like the sky without first creating a space for them both, it would have to be a huge hat trick where the sky was there (the hat) leaving a gap of nothing where the earth was pulled from and now fills the void. There again you have another creation because something is now where nothing was so then god "the separater of the stuff" just created the heaven and earth or if you preffer the separation of the two. Then goes forth to separate man and first woman from the earth and then slightly later mans rib from man to create woman (#2) and even goes and separates light from dark which as I've pointed out are all creations as they are something that are now exsisting but were not then.

this follows for everything that was supposedly "separated", it all makes something new.

As for the creation of animals, where could they have lived before the sky and earth and water were all separated? There again we find some creations either directly by "his will" or indirectly as these things were separated from one another.

Also, you could call god, god the separator, god the creator or even God the destroyer because they all mean the same thing. When somethings separated something new is created but the thing that was created from by the separation was destroyed.

so theres the long and detailed explination of why I say, "not really"

nsanelilmunky wrote:

RedAngel wrote:

And I wish I caught that History Channel/ NG special Nsane was referring to re: Lilith. I can look it up, I know. I really enjoy having a fresh look at those old texts, and examining the reasons why their meanings have been twisted for so many years.

It was on a special about Angels and Demons... And while I can't remember what Goddess they said she was or was about, from my own personal reading of one translation of the Epic of Gilgamesh, the character Lilith (as is in Jewish) reminds me of Ishtar. But this is my own personal opinion coming from only one translation. And that one translation is all my knowledge of Babylonian Mythology.

I think Lilith was originally Sumerian (a lot of the Jewish stories were borrowed from Sumerian myths). Lilith was added in (not in the Torah) because in the Genesis account there is wording that implies that a woman was originally created along with Adam, so they borrowed Lilith. Here is a little bit more info.

Well the whole Genesis story is wrought with mistakes, I'm not sure how anyone could just blindly read through the beginning of the book and still take the rest of it seriously.

On the First day God created light and had it divide from darkness. Named it "day" and "night"; but how could anyone know that since HE was the only thing around?

On the Second day: God creates a firmament dividing the waters above from the waters below (huh). The firmament is named "skies"; which poses the same naming issue.

On the Third day God commands the waters below to gather in one place, and dry land appears. "Earth" and "sea" are named (same problem again), and God commands the grass, plants, and fruit-trees to grow.

Fourth day God creates lights in the firmament: Sun and Moon, and all the little stars.

On that crazy fifth day God creates birds and sea creatures, and wants them to "be fruitful".

Day six God creates all the wild beasts, livestock and reptiles. He then creates Man and Woman, and it stated that they will be in "our image and likeness". But if there's only one true god, who is this "our" God's talking about? Oh never mind that, these magic people are supposed to "be fruitful, multiply, fill the earth, and subdue it."

Day seven God, rests from His work, because an all-powerful omnipotent thing which existed before existence, needs to relax after a 6 day work week, he's not a migrant for Christ's sake.


Now aside from the vain notion that the ancient Hebrews knew what God wanted to name everything, and that glaring mistake about God being "one of a group", we have ourselves a chronological order here. Sure most of these exact phrases are written word for word in the Book of the Dead and Sumerian mythologies, but forget about those civilizations who came first and told these stories 1000 years before the Hebrews crawled their way up from the head of the Nile in southern Africa to it's delta.


The Old Testament then describes the magical creation of Adam and Eve. Where before any plants had grown or any rain ever watered the earth, Yahweh formed the man out of dust from the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, which is nearly word for word the tale of Re creating Atum. Adam....Atum....Adam....Atum.... nothing similar about those names, beside Atum was a hermaphrodite, and that would be silly.

Re, I mean Yahweh, I mean God created a paradise where there was a Tree Of Life and a Tree Of Knowledge that the man is supposed to tend to. This paradise has links to all the major rivers of the Fertile Crescent, except the Nile, that one is not mentioned at all.... anyway. So this man tarries in the garden for years, but the man Adam is lonely, so God makes all the creatures to keep him company and help him work. Those that fly, that crawl, that walk on hooves; Adam names these animals too, and more years go by.

Adam is still lonely though, so God makes man fall asleep, takes a rib from him and makes Eve. Because God couldn't just create another human out of dust, the woman had to belong to the man, anyway. This creation of a mate from the bones of another is in the Epic of Gilgamesh and the creation stories of Enûma from the Assyrian empire. But all that doesn't matter, those are tales of mythology, not history.

What matters is the Holy order of creation is respected and....and....

...wait, God made all the animals first, then made Man and Woman on the same day in the Genesis creation tale. But on the following page of the Bible, God made Adam, then the animals, then Eve.

Well now I'm all confused, were there two different pairs of "first" humans? Was that first woman Lilith, who after Set a talking snake convinced Eve to defy God, tried to steal Adam away from his wife? After Cain killed Abel, was the mysterious couple God created before Adam and Eve the "people Cain encountered while walking West". Is Lilith the "night demon" from Mesopotamia, the "First wife of Adam" according to Hebrew folklore, or did she bare Cain "demon children" according to the Qur'an. Where did all the rest of the people come from if Adam and Eve only had sons, was someone a hermaphrodite, able to be both and both impregnate and get pregnant?


I'm all confused about which unquestionable truth of all things is correct, and which unquestionable holy truths are not correct.