The Big Picture

OK, I know this might be hot button so lets not let anything go to far if things get heated. I thought we could use a nice big juisy steak of a topic for conversation sake, lets see how it works...



Here so far are my thoughts on the big picture.

I think their is some kind of an "all being", I wont assume to call it male or female becasue that would be arrogent to assume it (A) fits into a singular sex class and (B) I know what it is. I think the fact it is an "all being" alone means it doesn't fit into a single sex class. I think since the "all being" is "all" that means its created/creating everything and at the same time destroying it thus keeping some sort of a balance of life and death and I mean that on the universal scale. I don't believe any one religion is right but they arent all wrong either because so many of them say the same things. Don't be an a**hole, be good to eachother, if you do something d**k-ish expect it to comeback and kick you in the a$$ at some point and so on. And on my last note for this for now I will say I believe evolutions real and face slappingly evident. I'm not saying monkeys became people but I am saying we didn't have computers and the internet 100 years ago, our brains grew and evolved to the point to where we can have these things and its done so since the cutting edge of tech was us smacking things with tree branches and rocks and fire was ""the big thing".

so thats a brief summery of what I got so far of the big picture, what do you have, lets hear it even if its just "I'm catholic"or "I'm darwinian"

We share 98% of our DNA with gorillas.

The idea that some entity has created all that there is in the infinite universe, and can control all of existence across the complete vastness of space, where distance must be calculated as time-elapsed by the movement of particles of light energy and reality actually bends and folds in on itself to form passageway through what we can understand as our dimension, seems a bit far fetched. Or that all of the incalculably infinitesimal workings of hydrogen molecules, mitochondria, dark matter, carbon and the primitive elements to which all that there are have been constructed out of; are being dictated by a vast and omnipotent being which actually is, everything.... seems a bit unbelievable.

Now if we consider our tiny meaningless planet only; the connection of all living things through an energy, or life-force, is more plausible. The living planet we call home, which connects all things together in one great system of life and movement, being acknowledged and even worshiped makes more sense to me. Our planet and our galaxy's star, the sun, are our mother and father, the engine of our existence and the dictator of our past and future. Everything that humans have ever done, can ultimately be led back to what our Earth and our Sun have provided for us. All of life is connected to one another, and all of life is dependent upon the sun burning, and the plant spinning and circling that sun.

The slightly less bigger picture should be that we human's have genetically changed since our earlier years, we have actually grew another pair of chromosomes, evolving our bodies and brains, but also becoming dis-harmonic with the rest of the planet. Some of the aboriginals of Australia and certain remote tribes in Africa and South America legitimately have less chromosomes then us. We are now a species which does not fit into the life-cycle, and we only destroy. We have in our time of evolving of mechanical and conceptual portions of our brain, forsaken the portions of our brain that allowed us to manipulate the higher order of senses. Instead of expanding what we can do with our minds, we have limited ourselves to what we can build, and our creations ultimately result in weapons. The so-called mystical abilities, psychic abilities, paranormal abilities, have been lost to our kind and replaced by the building of machines.

Our collective consciousness is gone as well; humans all over the planet at almost the exact same time all suddenly decided to capture and tame certain animals for drafting and herding, plant crops and grow food rather than gather. Humans in large enough communities all created written language at the same time, invented monetary units at the same time, and invented gods and fables dealing with the same crude stories at the same time. The collective consciousness is gone, we have actually evolved into a plague of super beings, and we're draining the life-force from our planet, and don't feel the need to stop doing so. Humans used to be able to sense danger like animals sensing an earthquake, as children we're more susceptible to the supposed paranormal, until we're taught that those things are "not real", and subconsciously no matter what you believe, you may never get that ability back. Humans have become more and more disconnected from each other and from the life-force which connects all things, so much so that most will never feel that connection their entire lives.

The World is becoming a horrible, cruel place

This isn't going to sound as eloquent as spooky's statement, but here we go.

As you all know I'm catholic. I was raised that way. Do I still believe in it? Yes. Do I agree with all of it? Not really. I still struggle with some of it. I believe there is a God and there is a master plan. Some priests have yelled at me for saying it that way because saying there is a master plan means that he hasn't given us free will, but if he knows what we are going to do anyway, then I think there is one. I also believe there is an after life. If there wasn't then why would their be ghosts or spirits?

My problem is I worry about what I believe being wrong. I've been asked, "If god is real and you live your life being a devoted and true catholic then you know you have done everything you could to get to heaven. If there isn't then you had nothing to lose by living right anyway." That isn't my problem. I don't mind following "what I'm supposed to." My problem is I get panic attacks about what if it's a lie? What if there is no God? What if there is nothing after death? It scares me to think I'll be asleep forever and never know. I keep telling myself that can't be true if I've see ghosts and such.

I'm a materialist, meaning that unless there is scientific proof of something, I don't believe in it. I side with what ever has the most scientific evidence.

DCGG, I think of it like this; if you ever have doubts about your faith, those doubts only matter to people around you. If there is in fact some omnipotent being which is and created all things, I don't feel it would fault you for not being 100% sure one way or the other. If it was so powerful and intelligent, it couldn't be so petty as to hold you judgment for not wanting to either believe a lie, or lie about being a complete unquestioning believer. It's selfish people who give ultimatums, not super beings.

^^I agree, but it doesn't stop the scare of what if I'm wrong? I don't think anyone really wants to believe after this there is nothing. But no matter how many ghosts you see, or strange things you encounter, there is always the what if in the back of your mind.

deadcoldgothgirl wrote:

^^I agree, but it doesn't stop the scare of what if I'm wrong? I don't think anyone really wants to believe after this there is nothing. But no matter how many ghosts you see, or strange things you encounter, there is always the what if in the back of your mind.

Ok, you would have to extend Pascal's Wager to other religions. What if you are still wrong?

Ginger_Snaps wrote:

deadcoldgothgirl wrote:

^^I agree, but it doesn't stop the scare of what if I'm wrong? I don't think anyone really wants to believe after this there is nothing. But no matter how many ghosts you see, or strange things you encounter, there is always the what if in the back of your mind.

Ok, you would have to extend Pascal's Wager to other religions. What if you are still wrong?

Don't nobody want to anger the big JuJu in Sea.

I personally don't care if someone wishes to believe in something supernatural, just as long as they do not use their beliefs to bully or deny other people rights. I would like for people to thoroughly examine the beliefs they grew up with so that they won't be intellectual drones; I encountered that yesterday in my Social Problems class were one of the students basically espoused what he believed but didn't have any real reasons to back up what he believed other than that is what he was taught in church.

^^ Agreed, Ginger.

I've been considering my beliefs for a few days, and they're kind of a messy amalgamation of beliefs because they change with each passing year -- as I learn more about the world around me, and apply it to my original theories, my beliefs grow and evolve.

Spooky wrote:

If there is in fact some omnipotent being which is and created all things, I don't feel it would fault you for not being 100% sure one way or the other. If it was so powerful and intelligent, it couldn't be so petty as to hold you judgment for not wanting to either believe a lie, or lie about being a complete unquestioning believer. It's selfish people who give ultimatums, not super beings.

I agree with this. If there is a Divine Force, it will not expect us (non-Divine-Forces) to be on an intellectual par with it. If we could fully understand the Divine, we'd all be Divine rather than human. I'm considering the analogy of the blind men and the elephant: the best we can each hope for is only a limited understanding. This is one reason why I love the song Rosetta Stoned by Tool: a regular schmo is given "All of the Answers" so to speak, but inevitably becomes overwhelmed by the ultimately superhuman level of information. To this end: I believe in God, I call God God and I refer to Him as male -- simply because I need reference points and those are the ones most familiar to me. I could certainly be wrong, and probably am.

I believe God is a source of only love and not malevolence (i.e. favoritism, hate, racism, sexism, heterosexism). People who preach divine hate are fearmongers with their own agendae. ("It is a lie - any talk of God that does not comfort you." -- Meister Eckhart, 1260-1328)

I believe humans are capable of more than we realize. We are capable of extraordinary benevolence; I believe this is Divine Energy within us. I also believe we are capable of and responsible for extraordinary evil -- I've tried believing in a Devil, but it's hard to imagine any cruelty greater than what some of us inflict on each other and on other living beings.

Treat others as you would wish to be treated. Whether the impetus is karma or simply having a positive hand in the workings of this world, it's a good idea.

We are here to learn from one another, from our common ground as well as our differences. In light of this, damning one another defeats the whole point of this life.

I don't know if Jesus was the son of God, and I don't have to. I don't know if Jesus had a romantic companion, but I kind of hope he did b/c having someone's support makes immense stress that much easier to bear. I don't know if God has a romantic companion, but I kind of hope He does, for the same reasons: simple extension of the goodwill I would wish for my friends/loved ones. I don't believe the Bible is the direct word of God -- some of it is pretty stunning writing, and may jibe with my own perspective, but the fact is, God wasn't holding the pen.


I believe in an Afterlife; I usually call it Heaven. I believe (OK, I hope) that there is a place free from pain where we can reunite, rest, and help those still living and learning on Earth. And maybe go bug them once in a while.

Oh, and evolution: 1) I'm kidding on the level when I joke that apes probably evolved from man; animals are cruel to ensure their survival whereas man is cruel for the sheer thrill of it. If that's not less-evolved behavior I don't know what is. I think we'd leap forward tremendously as a civilization if we could just drop our ego-tripping a little more often.
2) I don't think it's inconceivable to have the beliefs coexist: suppose Adam and Eve were simian? I'm OK with that.

Apart from that: I'm kind because I can be. If we were talking D&D alignment, I suppose I'd be Chaotic Good: I'm a positive person because it's a foot in the face of the mass cruelty that other people like to offer up.

I guess that's it for the time being. If you read all that, thanks. Great thread, Endless; thanks for posting it.

p.s. full disclosure: My husband's an atheist. He hasn't always been, though; for a while he was agnostic/questioning. I believe faith is a personal issue, so honestly, it never really came up before the wedding -- not that it would have been a dealbreaker.

@red & Spooky& DCGG

Thats all assuming it even notices us and/or cares about us in such personal ways. My idea of an "all being" is more literal than the christian idea as I know it. As far as I know the christian idea as well as most peoples idea of a god is some magic man in the sky that knows every thing and makes everything and moves it all about like chess pieces all along leaving us humans to our own devices but at the same time knowing what will happen. My idea is that it literaly is "ALL", you, me, the planet, the animals, the sun, planets, dark matter, univerce it is all part of the "all being"... That would mean it would be like noticing 1 grain of sand in a massive desert without looking for it, just knowing where it is and then to favor it over the rest.

ok so that might be sort of depressing to think of but

^^ Well, if you're saying that the Divine exists everywhere and in everything, rather than in just one Being and one realm -- that's cool, not depressing at all. That's certainly plausible too. My mom used to tell me God is everywhere; she would say it in defense of us not going to church, but I think she was also considering the same theory as you.

I also have a friend whose fiance passed away a little over a year ago; he used to tell her that when someone passes away, that soul becomes part of the Earth's energy. It becomes one with the growing things, the atmosphere, the sunlight. Plausible as well.

Now I'm almost excited to find out, lol! Almost. I'm happy to take my time getting to that point at which my questions are answered.

I think I'd rather believe in the power of people and not in something which I cant see.

I understand that peoples' faith gives them comfort but conventional faiths just dont work for me

Ginger_Snaps wrote:

I personally don't care if someone wishes to believe in something supernatural, just as long as they do not use their beliefs to bully or deny other people rights. I would like for people to thoroughly examine the beliefs they grew up with so that they won't be intellectual drones; I encountered that yesterday in my Social Problems class were one of the students basically espoused what he believed but didn't have any real reasons to back up what he believed other than that is what he was taught in church.

I tend to agree with you. You all know where I partially stand on religion, especially mine. I don't agree with the church telling me I should go out and tell people about God and how they need to see the light. I feel if someone wants to know more about my "faith" then they can ask me. It is not my place to shove it down anothers throat.

I tend to question a lot of things. My faith being one of them. It's funny because at the church here, a lot of people would say they believe and God is amazing, but they couldn't explain to me why. I don't have a problem with people loving god or being happy where they are. I also don't have a problem with trying to explain why but not knowing the words. I have a problem with when I bring up an argument or another view point and they can't even begin to answer me because they have never questioned anything and then just go with it.

just noticed something about this bottom half of the boards...

so, continuing my ever on going struggle to grasp the concept of the possibility of a God. So far I'm pretty sure if one exists its not the happy love god post "jesus" or the pre- Jesus wrath & vengance god. I'm pretty sure if there is one and H.R. lovecraft were alive today and had access to the amount of info we have now, he'd be able to name it and give it a face and it would be something completely bipolor and utterly insane. but thats just my thoughts for right now, it will probably change again before long.

endless dark wrote:

so, continuing my ever on going struggle to grasp the concept of the possibility of a God. So far I'm pretty sure if one exists its not the happy love god post "jesus" or the pre- Jesus wrath & vengance god. I'm pretty sure if there is one and H.R. lovecraft were alive today and had access to the amount of info we have now, he'd be able to name it and give it a face and it would be something completely bipolor and utterly insane. but thats just my thoughts for right now, it will probably change again before long.

I try not to think about it too much...